Proposing some decrees.

[tacopill]

Ok, so i have been surfing around the forums, going into previously hidden areas of the wiki, talking and reading various threads (both on and off public forums), here are some decrees i believe we should make. These are simply my opinions, and nothing more.

Disclaimer Note: i do not have the power or authority to enact these decrees.

#1. We are, and Always will be NIWA, a nintendo-focus alignment. Member wikis should be chosen based on their activeness, growth rate, scope, etc.
#1a. New members shall be help up to the standard of  a specific number of non-stub articles, based off of how many games that franchise has and how complex each game is. (EarthBoud would more articles per game than Star Fox, even though there are more Star Fox Games).
#1b. Wiki's that cover more than just nintendo, need to prove they have active Nintendo-related subsections.
#2. Once a member of NIWA, always a member of niwa (to prevent someone from Kicking out a wiki for there in-activeness). However, they may be removed if they request it or the NIWA community-at-large determines there quality has fallen far below comparable standards.
#3. Wikia is Ok. Not good, but not bad.
#3a. Those who choose to become part of a Wiki Farm are entirely in their own right, just as those who choose to leave it.
#3b. We may encourage a wiki to leave a wiki farm, but we can't be a pest  about it. Remember, an often heard voice can become an often ignored one quite easily.
#3c. If a Wiki on a Wiki Farm is being treated well, just let them be.

Feel free to add, remove or change as you see fit. Again, these are just my recommendations, and some of them are based on stuff i observed, others are merely supplemental.

- Tacopill

[Xizor]

I...do not agree with many of these.

#1. We are, and Always will be NIWA, a nintendo-focus alignment. Member wikis should be chosen based on their activeness, growth rate, scope, etc.

I think that saying we will "always" be a Nintendo-focused alignment is shortsighted. Also, as it is, member Wikis are chosen on no set of standards.

#1a. New members shall be help up to the standard of  a specific number of non-stub articles, based off of how many games that franchise has and how complex each game is. (EarthBoud would more articles per game than Star Fox, even though there are more Star Fox Games).

Similar attempts at regulating members have been made, and ultimately removed. We do not control any Wiki in our organization. We have yet to establish uniform Quality Standards.

#1b. Wiki's that cover more than just nintendo, need to prove they have active Nintendo-related subsections.

For as long as we are NIWA, sure. I agree with this. What "active Nintendo-related subsections" ultimately entails is far more ambiguous.

#2. Once a member of NIWA, always a member of niwa (to prevent someone from Kicking out a wiki for there in-activeness). However, they may be removed if they request it or the NIWA community-at-large determines there quality has fallen far below comparable standards.

By far the trickiest thing you said. How do we enforce this if we don't control a Wiki? Again, we have no Quality Standards.

#3. Wikia is Ok. Not good, but not bad.

I disagree, I think Wikia is a piece of shit. I'd love to see every Wiki on their independent and loving it. Is that feasible? Not at all. If Joe Schmoe wants to start a random Wiki, then Wikia's great for him...to start. That's how I see it. A starting ground that eventually all should move from.

#3a. Those who choose to become part of a Wiki Farm are entirely in their own right, just as those who choose to leave it.

Of course. This goes without saying. It is their right.

#3b. We may encourage a wiki to leave a wiki farm, but we can't be a pest  about it. Remember, an often heard voice can become an often ignored one quite easily.

I suppose, sure. I don't think we've ever come close to encountering this problem. The only one I see this having any bearing on was the Fantendo Fiasco, and I think we've been a bit too embarrassed to approach them again at this point.

#3c. If a Wiki on a Wiki Farm is being treated well, just let them be.

I strongly disagree here. We should encourage anybody and everybody to become independent, even if they are "doing fine" or being "treated well" by their Farm Overlords.

You have a lot of ideas, and I think that you're going to be a great influence here at NIWA. Perhaps my post sounds a bit cynical, but I'm pointing out a few glaring flaws with NIWA:

- No uniform Quality Standards
- No uniform stance on Wikia and other Wiki Farms
- There seems to be a growing disparity between the older and new members of NIWA over the organizations goals and motives. Maybe that's just me.

I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to run the place into the ground right now.

[tacopill]

Actually the reason i posted this was to bring the topic to the surface and allow everyone to participate in it, even if they choose not to, but at the same time to tie many (as i see it) pressing topics together from around the forums.

You have a lot of ideas, and I think that you're going to be a great influence here at NIWA.

Thank you. I hope at least one of my ideas will prove successful and useful for NIWA itself and NIWA as a whole.

Perhaps my post sounds a bit cynical, but I'm pointing out a few glaring flaws with NIWA:
- No uniform Quality Standards
- No uniform stance on Wikia and other Wiki Farms
- There seems to be a growing disparity between the older and new members of NIWA over the organizations goals and motives. Maybe that's just me.

Eh, i find no problem with Cyincalism, so long as there is Idealism to balance it out.  Anyway, on to the your points specifically:
* In order to form Lylat Wiki's Quality Standards, i compared and contrasted the QS of Bulbapedia, Wikipedia, Super Mario Wiki and ZeldaWiki.org. I picked and choose which standards i liked, and came up with my own to supplement or substitute them. Maybe NIWA itself can use them?
* While i agree with opinion, I caution us against taking it too far. We could end up burning out the audiences ear, setting ourselves up for slander or laible suits, etc.  Taking a stance against Wikia is a good, but risky move that must be treated with caution.
* do we have centralized goals? if so, do we have people who are willing to persue them? if not, we need to make them.

I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to run the place into the ground right now.

By all means. My ears are open to all suggestions.

[Melchizedek]

When Archaic and I first discussed founding NIWA, and in its founding - it was established with the view that it would one day expand into gaming and then beyond. The focus of NIWA is the independence, not the 'Nintendo'.

Once a member not always a member of NIWA. They prevents circumstances that may arise. For instance, ZW starts hating NIWA and rebells - we have no choice but to remove them. SMW moves to Wikia. Bulbapedia ceases to exist. Unlikely, but we can't rashly say, once a member always a member.

NIWA understands and recognizes that wiki-level Wikia's are fine. The totalitarian and corporation of the wikia system is not okay. I can say that Wikia is horrible. I hate it. It should go die. That is my opinion. I still respect the individual Wikia people though. We can each think what we want of wiki farms, but NIWA's issues are with the management and profit focus of Wikia. NIWA's goal is not to take wikis off farms, it is to make sure everyone understands the difference between independence and farms -because simply - half of the people running Wikia wikis don't know that there are other options. Other people think that every wiki is just copying Wikipedia. We simply provide the choice.

That's all just my opinion anyway.

[tacopill]

When Archaic and I first discussed founding NIWA, and in its founding - it was established with the view that it would one day expand into gaming and then beyond. The focus of NIWA is the independence, not the 'Nintendo'.

Really? b/c it conflicts with what Archaic says here

Once a member not always a member of NIWA. They prevents circumstances that may arise. For instance, ZW starts hating NIWA and rebells - we have no choice but to remove them. SMW moves to Wikia. Bulbapedia ceases to exist. Unlikely, but we can't rashly say, once a member always a member.

I wasn't trying to rashly say it, and if i came off as if i did, i apologize. But a fear of them any wiki being kicked out due to simple inactiveness is what motivated me to suggest #2.

NIWA understands and recognizes that wiki-level Wikia's are fine. The totalitarian and corporation of the wikia system is not okay. I can say that Wikia is horrible. I hate it. It should go die. That is my opinion. I still respect the individual Wikia people though. We can each think what we want of wiki farms, but NIWA's issues are with the management and profit focus of Wikia. NIWA's goal is not to take wikis off farms, it is to make sure everyone understands the difference between independence and farms -because simply - half of the people running Wikia wikis don't know that there are other options. Other people think that every wiki is just copying Wikipedia. We simply provide the choice.

That's all just my opinion anyway.

thank you for giving your opinions.

[SMB]

Something I noticed:

I suppose, sure. I don't think we've ever come close to encountering this problem. The only one I see this having any bearing on was the Fantendo Fiasco, and I think we've been a bit too embarrassed to approach them again at this point.

Not quite. I approached them asking if they wanted to give independence another shot, and they were quite divided. Seeing the scars from the time we let them down, I decided to just let "nature take its course" and left the discussion to see how they'd react without me pressuring them. The discussion pretty much died with half-support and half-opposition.

And after some attempts at discussing some problems within NIWA between the NIWA staff, I felt it appropriate to leave Fantendo be (as most seem to be content with being on Wikia).

[Xizor]

Ah, I did not know that. Perhaps after we've settled some of our own internal issues, we might be able to approach them again, stating such, our deep regrets at the failures of the past, and that if they're willing, we are willing to do everything we can for them. That is seriously a mistake we need to fix. I think, though, that 3rd time's the charm, so if it doesn't work a third time, we need to just leave them alone until they come to us. (For anyone who's wondering, this third approach of ours would probably not happen until 2011 at the earliest. )

[tacopill]

if it is appropriate for a public posting, may i ask what the internal problems are? if this is something that should be private, then please PM instead. 

[Xizor]

I'm talking about the things we've been discussing in Private Boards. They should stay private for now, I think.

[Melchizedek]

I was just talking last week with Archaic about the future direction of NIWA along with the staff of the new member wiki comig on Oct 15th, and the consensus was that we will one day expand. Take note of what Archaic said though - NIWA may remain as NIWA - but we will expand to many other independent wiki areas. They may be NIWA partners, not necessarily override NIWA. It's all future possibilities, so don't stress about it. What happens will be a logical and natural progression.

Also, wikis that are inactive are the very wikis that need NIWA support, not to be kicked out.

[Xizor]

Which is why he was saying we shouldn't kick those Wikis out. And, even if they become inactive, if they're fairly good sources of information, then that's all that matters, really.

However, it's another matter entirely if, say, Zelda Wiki went super inactive and was falling apart, and hadn't updated in a year, while GANON WIKI was updating hundreds of times a day, and had a vast collection of information to rival or surpass Zelda Wiki, then what do we do?

[SMB]

I'm talking about the things we've been discussing in Private Boards. They should stay private for now, I think.

I agree.

I was just talking last week with Archaic about the future direction of NIWA along with the staff of the new member wiki comig on Oct 15th, and the consensus was that we will one day expand. Take note of what Archaic said though - NIWA may remain as NIWA - but we will expand to many other independent wiki areas. They may be NIWA partners, not necessarily override NIWA. It's all future possibilities, so don't stress about it. What happens will be a logical and natural progression.

Also, wikis that are inactive are the very wikis that need NIWA support, not to be kicked out.

Perhaps there could be some umbrella organization that has the NIWA as a sub-organization?

[Melchizedek]

Perhaps SMB, it's all future stuff for our staff to decide on.

[Seritinajii]

I think these should be more specific. For example, what do you mean by Wikia? The company practices? The company premise? The wikis themselves?

[Tucayo]

Isn't 2 the opposite as 3a?

[tacopill]

I think these should be more specific. For example, what do you mean by Wikia? The company practices? The company premise? The wikis themselves?

hm.....The problems as i see it is Wikia itself. the premese itself is fine, it's their actions we have a problem with.

Isn't 2 the opposite as 3a?

not necessarily.

[Clyde1998]

Something I noticed:

I suppose, sure. I don't think we've ever come close to encountering this problem. The only one I see this having any bearing on was the Fantendo Fiasco, and I think we've been a bit too embarrassed to approach them again at this point.

Not quite. I approached them asking if they wanted to give independence another shot, and they were quite divided. Seeing the scars from the time we let them down, I decided to just let "nature take its course" and left the discussion to see how they'd react without me pressuring them. The discussion pretty much died with half-support and half-opposition.

And after some attempts at discussing some problems within NIWA between the NIWA staff, I felt it appropriate to leave Fantendo be (as most seem to be content with being on Wikia).

Fantendo's Admins were wanting to move again, however, the users didn't want to move. Now the Admins are "leaving" - leaving users to run the wiki. See the links.

http://fantendo.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Cobweb/Why_The_People_Who_Don't_Support_The_Move_Are_Not_Only_Wrong_But_Also_Downright_Harmful_to_Fantendo

http://fantendo.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Clyde1998/Moving_Poll.

[tacopill]

intersting..... but you gave us broken links.

try this:

Code Select Expand

[url=Link adress]Link text[/url]

[Tucayo]

Corrected link


For the second, it leads to a non-existent page

[tacopill]

it bad, but a little funny, to see a battle of ranks on on a wiki.

Are we the cause of the fighting?