Improving NIWA

[tacopill]

I'd be careful in recommending music, especially music that is still under copyright. There are a LOT of lawsuits flying around these days over the distribution of copyrighted music without the proper licenses.

My only question then would be why are we allowed to use game material but not the music? It just seems a little bit odd... But if you think it's a bad idea than that's fine by me. 

Lylat Wiki use's Game Music. See Corneria's Infobox.

[Xizor]

There is no set number of people from a Wiki we require or cap. If a Wiki wants to have only 2 reps, while another wants to have 10, then whatever. It's about pooling ideas, not politics.

Our staff is really not political. We abhor bureaucracy, and politics. As Ax said, most decisions are unanimous: either something fails and fails hard, or something is a runaway success. Even when we voted on the issue of creating the Coordinator position, we had clear unity to create the job, and then between the three people who were nominated, I was the clear choice, even if not 100%. And since then, I've made my duty here to not only do what those who voted for me expected and wanted, but to reassure those who didn't vote for me that I won't let them down. It's not about politics, it's just about NIWA. If Zelda Wiki somehow managed to comprise 33% of all NIWA Staffers, then it wouldn't matter. NIWA doesn't govern its wikis. It doesn't enforce anything. ZW cares about NIWA, and all that means is that their caring would get heard a little louder. Even then, that's part of what we have the Coordinator for. In a clear event of contentious bickering, I could step in and take control of a situation.

I feel like it's assumed we're incompetent or something.

[tacopill]

Out of curiosity, if i may i ask, is it NIWA's opinion or ZW's to "abhor bureaucracy"? 

Never mind, i got my answer.

[Xizor]

I'm pretty sure it's any sensible staff member's opinion to abhor pointless bureaucracy. Effective bureaucracy is simple and only implemented when it's needed.

ZW actually functions very differently from NIWA, and very few of its guiding principles are able to be applied here. Afterall...it's a Wiki.

[Archaic]

Even at 2/3 rule, if a group of wikis formed a coalition they could still use undue influence over NIWA based again on their bulk of staff members.

Just to further clarify the answers to this...one of the rules established at the very beginning of NIWA was that no member wiki could be forced to participate in something against its will. If all but one wiki voted to do something, that wiki is still perfectly within its rights to opt out of the process. Heck, even the format of the links back to NIWA and the other NIWA wikis isn't specified.

[Maxite]

Even at 2/3 rule, if a group of wikis formed a coalition they could still use undue influence over NIWA based again on their bulk of staff members.

Just to further clarify the answers to this...one of the rules established at the very beginning of NIWA was that no member wiki could be forced to participate in something against its will. If all but one wiki voted to do something, that wiki is still perfectly within its rights to opt out of the process. Heck, even the format of the links back to NIWA and the other NIWA wikis isn't specified.

Okay, that allays my concerns. The rules/setup for NIWA aren't very clear, and I'm slightly paranoid about such matters (based on previous experience in other communities).

[Malake256]

From the way you've been saying that Maxite, NIWA isn't at all like your former communities lol. We're less top down power and more bottom up. And here's your chance to voice a specific concern to improve NIWA. I would agree that there should be easily accessible information about NIWA.

[KidIcarus]

My guess would be the nature of our set up. The staff here aren't staff in traditional terms. They are staff on their respective wiki's, and they are allowed to talk with other similar wiki staffers in the staff boards.

It's sometimes easier to get help from another Wiki staffer (someone who is familiar with the software) then it is to ask the regular users who may not no how the software works.

Okay, let me rephrase my question: What purpose does such a large staff serve?

I don't think you can look at the NIWA staff like a traditional forum team. We're more like 'representatives'. We discuss and propose ideas for our wikis, and ensure that the voice of every member wiki is heard.

I understand the need for a staff board; I know that some plans need to be kept a secret and that discussions on forum moderation should stay private. However, from what I hear, many of the discussions going on in the staff board involve wikis in general. A better place for this would be, in my opinion, the Wiki References Board. There's no need to hide helpful information from potential member wikis.

[Jake]

There isn't very much talk on the staff board about improving wikis or wiki help in general. As you said, those are the kind of topics we like to see on the reference board. Discussions about wikis usually involve server issues, information/graphic requests (for the main page), or emails from potential wiki members. We're not hiding anything important from members hoping to start up wikis of their own.

[Cipriano 119]

Cool discussion going on so far. I understand that NIWA is more or less a blanket for the many wikis who wish to get tucked in at night (aww), but I always thought there should at least be some minor connectivity between them outside of overlapping users, N Wiki, and link exchanges. I've already brought this up in the Skype chat: what if say I showed a legitimate editing and knowledgeable interest on WikiBound. Wouldn't it make sense in this case, since I'm part of the staff on another wiki, that I would be made autopatrol immediately on WikiBound? Of course I used WikiBound as an example, but this is to be taken generally. I don't see why that would be an issue, especially since NIWA knows who is and who is not legitimate in the system when it comes down to editing.

If this could be made a NIWA-wide policy, that's a step towards a higher connectivity between the wikis in the system.

And for the record, I know relatively nothing about the Mother/Earthbound series. Sorry Tacopill, looks like I'm not going to be coming over anytime soon! ha

[Moydow]

Some wikis have an "ambassador" usergroup, which is set on administrators from other wikis. It gives autopatrol and the ability to edit MediaWiki: namespace pages.

[Cipriano 119]

Nice! I think I heard about that on the chat. How about all wikis have that!

[tacopill]

It's fine, we understand.  .

But yea, the Ambassador system works well, since it allows admins from other wiki's to help a given wiki (in more ways than just editing), but doesn't undermine the wiki's own staff.

[Maxite]

Here's a question that I've often pondered, but never really got clearly explained:
What is NIWA?
I understand it's a sort of affiliation of sorts, but is that all that it is?

[Malake256]

It's a garden. Haha.
But seriously, you can call it an affiliate system. That really is what it is. The problem with calling it that is that so many websites nowadays have "affiliates" that they've only talked to once. It seems the word "affiliate" has been diminished by simply living around the interwebs. NIWA as a whole is a cooperative project between the wikis to better each other and to strive for an system of wikis entirely created by and for the fans. Unlike previous wiki clusters where really and truly the object is infinite profit, NIWA looks to satisfy and engage fans to collaborate to create and expand these wikis. Eh. That's a snippet of what NIWA is I guess. Our manifesto should be revised.. soon.

[Xizor]

The thing, Cip, is that what you're saying has to be voluntary. All wikis could choose to participate as such, but they never would have to. That's the key here. NIWA does not enforce anything.

[Axiomist]

Here's a question that I've often pondered, but never really got clearly explained:
What is NIWA?
I understand it's a sort of affiliation of sorts, but is that all that it is?

Its a little harder to tell what it is now. But if you were around at the creation, you'd have noticed some things about the four pre-existing members that have been heavily improved. Thing is, we stuck to our wikis and fandoms since say ZeldaUniverse Forums offered a place for all of our Zelda discussions, ZeldaWiki offered a place for all of our wiki editing, and so on for each community. With this organic, wild growth plan, each wiki specialized in specific areas and underwhelmed in some others. When we first started talking, we dealt with promoting our wikis to a wider Nintendo audience, tech issues that each wiki was dealing with, and suggested new ideas to one another.

[leem01]

On the music idea, ACW also uses music in our articles as well as uploading them on our YouTube channel.

[Archaic]

It's a garden. Haha.
But seriously, you can call it an affiliate system. That really is what it is. The problem with calling it that is that so many websites nowadays have "affiliates" that they've only talked to once. It seems the word "affiliate" has been diminished by simply living around the interwebs. NIWA as a whole is a cooperative project between the wikis to better each other and to strive for an system of wikis entirely created by and for the fans. Unlike previous wiki clusters where really and truly the object is infinite profit, NIWA looks to satisfy and engage fans to collaborate to create and expand these wikis. Eh. That's a snippet of what NIWA is I guess. Our manifesto should be revised.. soon.

Perhaps the best way I could describe NIWA, without using the affiliate term (since NIWA has affiliates in addition to actual members, so that can be confusing) would be to resurrect a term that hasn't been used on the internet much for the last decade.

Basically....NIWA can be thought of as an advanced and enhanced version of the webrings of old. Much more closer knit than any of them were, and with a lot more co-operation, but the core idea is basically the same.

[tacopill]

It's a garden. Haha.
But seriously, you can call it an affiliate system. That really is what it is. The problem with calling it that is that so many websites nowadays have "affiliates" that they've only talked to once. It seems the word "affiliate" has been diminished by simply living around the interwebs. NIWA as a whole is a cooperative project between the wikis to better each other and to strive for an system of wikis entirely created by and for the fans. Unlike previous wiki clusters where really and truly the object is infinite profit, NIWA looks to satisfy and engage fans to collaborate to create and expand these wikis. Eh. That's a snippet of what NIWA is I guess. Our manifesto should be revised.. soon.

Perhaps the best way I could describe NIWA, without using the affiliate term (since NIWA has affiliates in addition to actual members, so that can be confusing) would be to resurrect a term that hasn't been used on the internet much for the last decade.

Basically....NIWA can be thought of as an advanced and enhanced version of the webrings of old. Much more closer knit than any of them were, and with a lot more co-operation, but the core idea is basically the same.

Ok, that makes more sense to me than some of the other descriptions I've heard of.

Personally, i never saw the Web-ring as a good idea, since it only linked to 2 other sites at a time (and sometimes even had a random button), and it got rather boring after a while. I am glad to see we have more of a web-web, with each member connecting to the other members; and that we have a center to help focus it.

Which means, topology-wise, we currently have a 17-orthoplex, rather than just a Heptadecagon.