Improving NIWA

[tacopill]

To Xizor:
Wait, now i am confused. You say every wiki has equal influence on what's going in, but if each thing that is going on is voted-via-poll by the staff, wouldn't a bigger staff give that wiki more influence?

Also, if the forum administrators have wiki's to run, would having forum administrators without wiki's to run be helpful? this way they don't have too many things on their plate?

To Maxite:




Here is wikibound's stats upon joining NIWA. The green line represents the month before, and Blue line is the month of.

Thank you NIWA. 

[Xizor]

To Xizor:
Wait, now i am confused. You say every wiki has equal influence on what's going in, but if each thing that is going on is voted-via-poll by the staff, wouldn't a bigger staff give that wiki more influence?

Also, if the forum administrators have wiki's to run, would having forum administrators without wiki's to run be helpful? this way they don't have too many things on their plate?

They do have equal influence. If a Wiki itself objected, instead of just one of its representatives (which no wiki has done - often two reps from one wiki will disagree on a subject if there is disagreement to be had) or we all just agree. Though, to have an example, there are times where SMW staff all oppose something, but if it's clearly JUST SMW, then we can make a decision that benefits the majority of NIWA, rather than caters to a loud minority of a few Wikis. The fact that we have no majority rules in place, or whatever, makes it hard for any one wiki to assert its dominance. And as I've said, any Wiki that acts apathetically is doing it to itself. Thus far, though, there has been no need to set limits on how many Staff a wiki can send here, and no Wiki has tried to overly assert itself where it shouldn't.

As far as the forum Admins go, I think always having a vested interest in a Wiki is important, because NIWA is nothing without the Wikis. If I were JUST the NIWA Coordinator, without any interest in Zelda Wiki, I'd start worrying less about what the Wikis want as individuals, and more about what serves just the organization, and that's bad for the members.

Also, your image wasn't working for me. Dunno if that's JUST for me or if you need to rehost the image elsewhere.

[KidIcarus]

How about a board for topics of significance formerly restricted to staff members. I applaud NIWA for publicizing the thread on which staff members elected a NIWA Coordinator. I'd like to see more of this. For example, seeing the process of a prospective wiki being elected into the alliance would make for an interesting read. And of course, the threads could be locked.

Thoughts?

I think this got overshadowed by some other suggestions. Even if they are only polls or whatever, it would still be interesting to see.

[Xizor]

We're currently discussing another thread we want to release, as well as a more efficient and regular way to publish threads we've finished with that we feel would benefit the community overall.

[Maxite]

What are NIWAs plans for expansion? There's only a finite number of Nintendo franchises to cover, then what?

[tacopill]

Ok, i'm not sure what's wrong with the site i linked it to. Here is my second attempt.

Click the link



Hopefully, this one works for you.



(continuing from Xizor's reply).

With the power structure as it is now, hypothetically, could i:
#1) get 50 of my friends all signed up for WikiBound (none of them being EarthBound fans), give them admin access and have them become NIWA staff, and then tell them to vote for a specific option in the polls?
#2) Post an idea on the staff forums, get one "yes", and immediately assume i have the support of the staff? (This based on the fact that one of my interpretations of what you said is, "even if one wiki says 'no' to something, the rest will say 'yes'.")

Also, without an "admin without outside obligations" who do we talk to about changing things around the forums, making announcements by the wiki's, changing wiki-related information on the NIWA hubsite, forums, etc.

Also Also, what do you mean "is nothing without the wiki's"? i mean, there is a site, and forums, so there is something that exists independent of any wiki.

Also Also Also, how is thinking NIWA as an Organization separate from the Wiki's a bad thing? I'm still confused on this point.

(I apologize if i am being annoying)

What are NIWAs plans for expansion? There's only a finite number of Nintendo franchises to cover, then what?

At the current point, none that i am aware of.

[Nintendoguy1]

@tacopill: Treat NIWA as you would wikibound. If one staff member of wikibound (equivalent to one wiki in NIWA) opposed something, would you overrule them? Or listen to them and try to make an agreement?

And at the poll-votes-thing, I believe Xizor said that the wiki that shouts the loudest doesn't necessarily take the cake.

@Maxite: NIWA's expansion is tied to its wiki's expansion - as long as we have two wikis in the alliance, we will be expanding as the wikis will be expanding. Our "job" is to make the wikis better, our "job" is not to make ourselves better. If more wikis want to join, all the better! If not, then we can make do with the ones we have.

[Xizor]

(continuing from Xizor's reply).

With the power structure as it is now, hypothetically, could i:
#1) get 50 of my friends all signed up for WikiBound (none of them being EarthBound fans), give them admin access and have them become NIWA staff, and then tell them to vote for a specific option in the polls?

If you did that, as I said, we have no rules in place, so you'd basically ruin a poll and force us to put aside an important issue to deal with a childish outburst from a Wiki trying to achieve who knows what. But honestly, it'd never get to that point, because at some point we'd notice you padding your own numbers and we'd all put a cap on it and probably be forced to cut staff in order to even things out, or rather take away each staff member's vote in certain situations, and then go back to the way we used to do things, which was have on person "represent" each wiki in certain votes.

I know I said never to compare to government, but this is the best example I can think of: The US House of Representatives - larger states get more votes and thus more influence, but rarely will every member of such a delegation sycophantically take the orders of someone at the top. I know I said everyone has equal say, and that equal say can be asserted even if you have a smaller staff. Your Wiki's staff would be proportionate to your Wiki's needs. Honestly, we operate under the assumption that we're all here to work together and achieve great things overall, rather than be d***s and throw tantrums. If any wiki did what you described, I'd seriously question their membership in the organization, because that honestly goes against just about every principle of the thing. Thus, larger Wikis would not abuse their size to bully smaller Wikis, because we're all here to help each other. Even further, there's very little bullying to be had, because NIWA does not enforce anything, and it's nigh impossible to cut someone out of resources and help, such as all the boards we have available, and the new CrossWiki Team.

#2) Post an idea on the staff forums, get one "yes", and immediately assume i have the support of the staff? (This based on the fact that one of my interpretations of what you said is, "even if one wiki says 'no' to something, the rest will say 'yes'.")

I'm not sure how you misinterpreted me here, but it means that throughout the length of a discussion, even if one Wiki objects, if we can determine that it won't hurt that wiki, we can still do something if a great majority feels that we should do something. I really don't know how you took anything I said to mean you can assume something is settled from one reply. Maybe because I said something about apathetic members?

Also, without an "admin without outside obligations" who do we talk to about changing things around the forums, making announcements by the wiki's, changing wiki-related information on the NIWA hubsite, forums, etc.

The admins now take care of these things, myself included. In fact, all of those things you should funnel through me. That's why we created the Coordinator position. I know who to delegate to, and things will get taken care of by the people who have always taken care of them.

Also Also, what do you mean "is nothing without the wiki's"? i mean, there is a site, and forums, so there is something that exists independent of any wiki.

I've said before that this place would cease to exist if every wiki left. We're an Alliance, and an Alliance is what it is because of its members. There would be no United States of America without the 50 states. There would be no European Union if all member states left. There would be no NATO if all member states left. There would be no NFL if all teams disbanded/left the league (which has happened with Sports leagues). There is no NIWA without the Wikis. Yes, there may be REMNANTS of a structure from before, but that structure is meaningless without any members.

Also Also Also, how is thinking NIWA as an Organization separate from the Wiki's a bad thing? I'm still confused on this point.

Because, as I've just said, NIWA is only the summation of its members and their needs and the methods by which we address those needs. These forums have no point or purpose outside of that. Wiki tools, community building, interwiki friendship, all of those things and more are part of the members and their needs. NIWA was nothing before its members created it, and they created it in coming together. It wasn't like NIWA started up with no members, and then started recruiting. It only exists because Wikis came together and made it so.

What are NIWAs plans for expansion? There's only a finite number of Nintendo franchises to cover, then what?

What Nintendoguy said sits with me pretty well. Eventually, yes, NIWA may no longer be gaining new member Wikis, but those Wikis are always working to improve. That is the overall point of potential other "IWA" organizations, because trying to cram 200+ wikis into something like what we have will not sustain itself, and will either collapse or be forced to function like Wikia. It is not what we want.

[tacopill]

@Nintendoguy1:
I would work with them. But my mind / imagination / curiosity / paronia / etc. Is not always bound by reality or what is likely to happen. Rather, it is bound by my inability to communicate effectively.

Thank you for the example though. It helped.

@Xizor:
Thank you for the very elaborate and detailed answer. I believe it should satisfy my curiosity and paranoia (for now). Although, i did have to look up a few words, like sycophantically.

As for the Interpretation, at one point during my history with NIWA (moths ago) i became convinced that we all always vote yes, or at least vote favorably for everything that came up. (I was new, what do you want from me?)

Based on that, it seemed natural to me to ask a question, get one yes, assume the rest of the staff would be in agreement, and therefore not have to wait for them to actually respond.

What you said, chimed as a similar situation, so i added it to the list of hypothetical stuff in order to see what you would say in response.

@Nintendoguy1, Xizor:
Hopefully what i have said will helps clear things up for . If it doesn't, then, if requested, i can give you a detailed post on how my interpretations of things are different than the "average" person, which would include references to my background, friends, family members, all sorts of instructors I've had and two of my three advisors in college. 

@ALL:
Is the image showing up for everyone?

[Nintendoguy1]

There's an image?</anticlimactic>

[Maxite]

What does NIWA plan on doing with regards to the development of other IWAs? Is NIWA going to help those out, and if so, to what extent? Will NIWA affiliate with them?

[Archaic]

Our response to other IWA's would be on a case by case basis. While we might be the inspiration for them, we can't be sure that any IWA created would necessarily share the same long term philosophies or goals.

[Maxite]

Our response to other IWA's would be on a case by case basis. While we might be the inspiration for them, we can't be sure that any IWA created would necessarily share the same long term philosophies or goals.

And what long term philosophies and goals are those that NIWA has?

[Nintendoguy1]

For example, we refuse to impose any policies or rules upon our members.

Another IWA may not.

[tacopill]

There's an image?</anticlimactic>

Yes. Check out This post

[Axiomist]

What does NIWA plan on doing with regards to the development of other IWAs? Is NIWA going to help those out, and if so, to what extent? Will NIWA affiliate with them?

We do hope other wiki alliances will form. We can't be too involved in the creation of those, but would gladly share the enough details that a basic model could be formed for them.

Affiliation, like others said, would be case-by-case. I presume you ask for your DAWN group. Since that grouping is still in its infancy, we probably couldn't reach a consensus on affiliating with it.

[Xizor]

What they said.

[Maxite]

A minor suggestion:
Could we replace the chatroom thread with a more generic "Contacts" thread, that would include
1. A list of all Forum Administrators
2. A list of wiki representatives
3. Information on how to join the NIWA chat on Skype.

I've checked the chat listed in that thread several times, and I've never seen anyone else in it.

[Nintendoguy1]

Um...I think that thread links to #niwa and I think we abandonned that channel...

If you want me to try making that channel more active I can...

It does lead to #niwa, right?

[Maxite]

We have a NIWA chatroom on Skype. Why do we need another chatroom on IRC?