DAWN - Developmental Alliance for Wikis on Nintendo

[KidIcarus]

I didn't mean to reveal this so soon, but it's probably best that I let everyone know now. I have started a new alliance, a supplement, not a competitor, to NIWA. There are four distinct reasons I created this alliance.

1.) To expose Wikia wikis to Monobook. DAWN also wants to show them the freedom a wiki can have when hosted off of Wikia. The alliance itself is hosted on Wikkii, so Wikia users, many of whom are beginners at editing, can get used to editing without the rich text editor. The alliance has a firm, though not rock-hard, stance against Wikia.

2.) To act as a minor league for NIWA wikis. How many of you guys knew we had developing wikis for Chibi-Robo!, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, and Fire Emblem numerous franchises? I'm guessing most of you did not. That's because they have never been compiled into an organized page that new users are exposed to. The new alliance gives developing wikis some sort of spotlight.

3.) To act as a home for wikis that don't have immediate plans to leave Wikkii. Honestly, nothing is wrong with Wikkii.

4.) To act as an example for NIWA. Some of you guys have had grievances with NIWA - its issue of secrecy for example. The new alliance hopes to show NIWA that this user aristocracy is not necessary. If someone has any ideas that NIWA is not so willing to implement, maybe the new alliance will try it out and see how it works. This is not a knock against NIWA; it is understandable that an organization as developed as NIWA will be reluctant to enact changes because they could backfire. Because DAWN is rather small, it is easier to correct any problems that arise from the new ideas.

I just want to reiterate that DAWN does not mean to compete. DAWN will continue to improve and expand  - it's up to NIWA whether they want to work in cooperation with or in spite of it DAWN or not. For those of you who are interested after reading all of this, feel free to visit DAWN.

[Seritinajii]

To me, this doesn't seem like that bad of an idea. As you said, it could have many uses.

Would this be a sort of "gateway" for wikis that do plan to join NIWA?

[TurtwigA]

I do like the idea. An alliance to work alongside NIWA. Just one thing though. Why a 100 article requirement? If it's a development alliance, it would make sense to have a requirement of at least 10 articles rather than 90 more.

How many of you guys knew we had developing wikis for Chibi-Robo!, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, and Fire Emblem.

I knew about them. Granted I founded one, but still.

[KidIcarus]

I do like the idea. An alliance to work alongside NIWA. Just one thing though. Why a 100 article requirement? If it's a development alliance, it would make sense to have a requirement of at least 10 articles rather than 90 more.

How many of you guys knew we had developing wikis for Chibi-Robo!, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, and Fire Emblem.

I knew about them. Granted I founded one, but still.

Maybe a one hundred article limit is a little steep; ten articles may be a little low, though. Each wiki, ideally, should have a solid foundation upon which to build. Perhaps, twenty-five is a more reasonable number?

[BrandedOne]

I like the idea, I think. Two things right off the bat that I'm worried about.

1) You use "I" and "me" throughout your opening post. Now, granted you can take credit for this idea, but you aren't going to run this yourself, I hope.

2) I'm imagining a situation in which DAWN would include a wiki that does not qualify for inclusion into NIWA. Let's take Spectrobes, for example, which I believe is on your list of potential members. Developed by Jupiter and Genki, published by Disney Interactive Studios. It's not my decision to make, but I don't think Spectrobes qualifies for NIWA. Now, this really isn't a problem persay, except that for some of these wikis, it may seem like you're offering a promise you can't keep. As long as each of them knows that just because you include them in DAWN, that doesn't necessarily mean they will qualify for NIWA, regardless of quality.

[KidIcarus]

Those are two very good points.

1.) I will go back and change the pronouns where I see fit. I'm sure I typed some of them subconsciously.

2.) The alliance doesn't mean to promise any wikis anything on behalf of NIWA. The alliance will be run as an entity independent of NIWA. I did mention that it could be used as a minor league for potential NIWA wikis, but that is not its primary purpose. The primary purpose of DAWN is to develop wikis and give them a professional tone (AKA get them off Wikia). It is up to the wiki what to do after they are developed. NIWA may be a logical next step, but DAWN will not actively push for that. It is up to NIWA to recruit wikis; of course, if both the wiki and NIWA agree on a move, DAWN will back the idea 100%. In fact, I believe I only mention NIWA once on DAWN, and I specifically tell prospective wikis to contact NIWA for more information.

[Level 3]

Wherenis this Ace Attorney wiki?

[Archaic]

4.) To act as an example for NIWA. I know many of you guys have had grievances with NIWA - its issue of privacy for example. The new alliance hopes to show NIWA that this user aristocracy is not necessary.

I have no idea what you're talking about with this, and I literally research internet privacy issues for a living. What grievances with regards to privacy? Maybe I'm just busy and distracted, but I can't say I've seen any, and certainly none have been brought to my attention.

[BrandedOne]

Those are two very good points.

1.) I will go back and change the pronouns where I see fit. I'm sure I typed some of them subconsciously.

2.) The alliance doesn't mean to promise any wikis anything on behalf of NIWA. The alliance will be run as an entity independent of NIWA. I did mention that it could be used as a minor league for potential NIWA wikis, but that is not its primary purpose. The primary purpose of DAWN is to develop wikis and give them a professional tone (AKA get them off Wikia). It is up to the wiki what to do after they are developed. NIWA may be a logical next step, but DAWN will not actively push for that. It is up to NIWA to recruit wikis; of course, if both the wiki and NIWA agree on a move, DAWN will back the idea 100%. In fact, I believe I only mention NIWA once on DAWN, and I specifically tell prospective wikis to contact NIWA for more information.

Well, good then. You've quite perfectly addressed both my concerns . I look forward to seeing DAWN grow.

4.) To act as an example for NIWA. I know many of you guys have had grievances with NIWA - its issue of privacy for example. The new alliance hopes to show NIWA that this user aristocracy is not necessary.

I have no idea what you're talking about with this, and I literally research internet privacy issues for a living. What grievances with regards to privacy? Maybe I'm just busy and distracted, but I can't say I've seen any, and certainly none have been brought to my attention.

I believe he is referring to secrecy, not privacy. A while back, some of us non-staff users commented on how annoying it is when we mention something and the response is "we already talked about that on the staff boards" or "it's a secret to everybody". Is that what you're referring to, vince?

[KidIcarus]

Yes, I meant the issue of secrecy. NIWA does a good job of keeping user information private. I will change the wording right now to prevent any more confusion regarding that.

Level 3 - Here is the Ace Attorney Wiki. Sorry, the wiki's owner doesn't want me to link to the wiki. 

[Archaic]

On the issue of secrecy then...

Can I ask what website out there does not operate in exactly that same manner, with a clear deliniation between staff and regular members? How are we supposed to come up with fun and exciting surprises that will excite and delight everyone if we tell everyone what they are months in advance.

Honestly though, I think people have a very warped perspective of what's actually discussed in the staff forums. Some people seem to be looking at them as if enormous amounts of posts are being made there, on a huge range of topics, where that's simply not the case.

[Level 3]

Yes, I meant the issue of secrecy. NIWA does a good job of keeping user information private. I will change the wording right now to prevent any more confusion regarding that.

Level 3 - Here is the Ace Attorney Wiki.

Remove mention of it from your posts. That happens to be my wiki and I don't recall affiliating with DAWN in any way.  That wiki is in no way included in your "we", especially before you even consult me ln that matter.

[KidIcarus]

On the issue of secrecy then...

Can I ask what website out there does not operate in exactly that same manner, with a clear deliniation between staff and regular members? How are we supposed to come up with fun and exciting surprises that will excite and delight everyone if we tell everyone what they are months in advance.

I'm not saying either way is better. I'm just saying DAWN will try it out and see how it works. If it works, then great; maybe NIWA can follow its example. If it doesn't work and DAWN crashes and burns as a result, then at least we know for sure it doesn't work. For that point, think of DAWN as a smaller-scale test subject. It will be open to new ideas that NIWA may not be ready to implement. If I were in NIWA's shoes, I would be reluctant to enact major changes without seeing it succeed on a smaller scale. This doesn't only apply to secrecy; it applies to any new idea that someone may have for an alliance.

Remove mention of it from your posts. That happens to be my wiki and I don't recall affiliating with DAWN in any way.  That wiki is in no way included in your "we", especially before you even consult me ln that matter.

Done.

[Axiomist]

On the issue of secrecy then...

Can I ask what website out there does not operate in exactly that same manner, with a clear deliniation between staff and regular members? How are we supposed to come up with fun and exciting surprises that will excite and delight everyone if we tell everyone what they are months in advance.

I'm not saying either way is better. I'm just saying DAWN will try it out and see how it works. If it works, then great; maybe NIWA can follow its example. If it doesn't work and DAWN crashes and burns as a result, then at least we know for sure it doesn't work. For that point, think of DAWN as a smaller-scale test subject. It will be open to new ideas that NIWA may not be ready to implement. If I were in NIWA's shoes, I would be reluctant to enact major changes without seeing it succeed on a smaller scale. This doesn't only apply to secrecy; it applies to any new idea that someone may have for an alliance.

Remove mention of it from your posts. That happens to be my wiki and I don't recall affiliating with DAWN in any way.  That wiki is in no way included in your "we", especially before you even consult me ln that matter.

Done.

As soon as you pulled the link, you assisted in secrecy and user aristocracy too. Since you know at least that one thing that isn't totally public knowledge, that puts you in the AAW owner's circle of contacts and not just in the general public sphere. That's all we do, but on a much larger scale and often involving many more people's secret projects. So while on the outside of some things, it may seem so horrendous, it's generally trivial and necessary to ensure anything we have planned isn't undermined by some trolls from Wikia. There's really nothing to bemoan about what you can't see in NIWA.

[KidIcarus]

Let me just reiterate that secrecy is not the major point. My point is that DAWN is willing to experiment with new ideas that NIWA may not be ready to implement. The lack of secret discussion is just one of those ideas. DAWN can implement future changes if a situation arises in which NIWA or its members are unsure if an alliance idea will work or not. Out of curiosity though, what does AAW mean?

For the record, I pulled the link because it was irrelevant. If anyone feels otherwise, contact me privately; I will gladly, and in full detail, tell you what's going on.

[Axiomist]

AAW= Ace Attorney Wiki

I do encourage you to continue your project. Seeing that your last post even invites private discussion proves the point you aren't acknowledging. Secret discussions are going to be a part of any project. You'll realize that one day.

...it's up to NIWA whether they want to work in cooperation with or in spite of...

There isn't anything (that I know of) that NIWA is operating in spite of. Some may say we operate in spite of Wikia, but I believe NIWA was inevitable, even if Wikia never existed, we would. Unlike forums, blogs, and other general websites, wikis are a collaborative project revolving around the same core software. Most significantly, wikis don't command loyalty like forums do. Most forums allow discussions for any game, even outside of the home theme. Wikis stick to their theme, so Zelda Wiki editors went to Mario Wiki for Mario content. It was just a matter of time before we got together and made it the official site companion.

[Level 3]

On the issue of secrecy then...

Can I ask what website out there does not operate in exactly that same manner, with a clear deliniation between staff and regular members? How are we supposed to come up with fun and exciting surprises that will excite and delight everyone if we tell everyone what they are months in advance.

I'm not saying either way is better. I'm just saying DAWN will try it out and see how it works. If it works, then great; maybe NIWA can follow its example. If it doesn't work and DAWN crashes and burns as a result, then at least we know for sure it doesn't work. For that point, think of DAWN as a smaller-scale test subject. It will be open to new ideas that NIWA may not be ready to implement. If I were in NIWA's shoes, I would be reluctant to enact major changes without seeing it succeed on a smaller scale. This doesn't only apply to secrecy; it applies to any new idea that someone may have for an alliance.

Remove mention of it from your posts. That happens to be my wiki and I don't recall affiliating with DAWN in any way.  That wiki is in no way included in your "we", especially before you even consult me ln that matter.

Done.

As soon as you pulled the link, you assisted in secrecy and user aristocracy too. Since you know at least that one thing that isn't totally public knowledge, that puts you in the AAW owner's circle of contacts and not just in the general public sphere. That's all we do, but on a much larger scale and often involving many more people's secret projects. So while on the outside of some things, it may seem so horrendous, it's generally trivial and necessary to ensure anything we have planned isn't undermined by some trolls from Wikia. There's really nothing to bemoan about what you can't see in NIWA.

While I do agree with you in this I just want to bring up that tje wiki isn't secret, it has it's iwn thread, it's just that it seemed to be placed into DAWN without my consent.

[Maxite]

I think everyone here realizes that in order for a group to operate that has both public and private faces, some levels of secrecy are needed. The question is the balance of secrecy.
Personally, I think it's a wonderful idea.

[tacopill]

Looking good. Good luck with it.

[Xizor]

It's just frustrating for us on Staff because we are blatantly told you either A.) Think we're incompetent or B.) Think we're just working to boost our egos.

There is no imbalance of "secrecy" - we discuss normal staff things in our private staff boards. I've been on many website staffs, and this one is actually much more open than most.

We offer a lot of help to any wiki who wants it. I get a lot of emails and we try to help everybody, whether they plan to become independent or not, if they're Nintendo-related or not. We recently decided to affiliate with a Simpson's Wiki.

I wish you luck on your project, but I feel like your particular grievances against NIWA are not founded in any sort of facts about the organization.